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Narrative Voice
>> Monday, July 6, 2009
This is a hot button topic for me.
I started writing strictly from the first person POV from the time I wrote my first pieces, maybe 7 or 8 years old, because I write what I know and that's what I do and that's what I've always done. When I finally moved past that (and I'm slow so I'm talking YEARS, at least after I got out of high school LMAO), I stuck strictly to one POV although I don't really know why. Habit I suppose. Eventually I found it annoying and limiting and quit it.
Using third person, occasionally I would switch from one person's point of view to another's in the same scene. I knew I was doing it. It didn't happen all the time. But sometimes it was necessary. And I didn't realize I was doing anything wrong.
I recently discovered that's called head-hopping, and it is a very very bad thing to do.
Am I going to go back and fix everything? No. Will I try to avoid doing that in the future? Well yeah I guess so since it's such a horrific deal.
Do I understand why it is so horrible? No. Doesn't bother me when I'm reading something. Do I understand why other people hate it so much? No.
I'll respect the rule. But if anyone can tell me why they find this so offensive, apart from the fact that it violates a rule, I'd be interested. (And a couple of people I like and respect do seem to really dislike it.) Please don't tell me to go read X by Y as an example of great literature. I don't care. I want to know why you personally hate it. Is it like someone who doesn't turn off the left turn signal for miles and miles and you want to scream and froth at the mouth? Now I can understand that....
20 comments:
What...what? I love any POV in a story! I started writing in first person POV when I was younger and just switched back and forth between characters. Uhh...is that against the rules? I guess it's like my current Winchester story. That's in first POV but once again I switch back and forth.
What's the big deal about POV? Can't someone write in the perspective that they're most comfortable in? I've read some great first person POV and some not so great. I think it all depends on the writer.
And what rule is this? In my mind rules are made to be broken(said she who works at a PD! LOL!). What's good for the goose ain't always good for the gander. I'm just saying! I'm as stumped as you and I've babbled on long enough huh?
Beth looks so confused in that pic!! LMAO!! It's great!
Yes she does because I am totally confused LMAO!
Phoenix, I have to say. Right here. Very solemn. I have never been confused when/if you switched POV's in the middle of a scene. There. It's out there. I got it. Never once did I scream OMFG she changed POV's!
It's the 'head hopping'. Wow. I never knew. Like damn I'm 'head hopping'. I am? Is that like getting TP stuck in my panties and I'm strutting down the sidewalk with a trail behind me? UGGHH GROSS!
Or it is like this is the rule book. Read it. Understand it. There's a quiz.
LMAO!!! I'm a visual person so in my head I just saw the TP trail and a woman strutting down the street! Too funny!! And thanks Beth! I just write...I don't really think of the mechanics behind it. Does that make me a bad writer or what?:P
Head...hopping??!! But...but...there's always different POV in EVERY story. How could you stay with just one? *is confused* I didn't know there was a rule. OMG! I've been breaking a rule! *gets out the confetti so we can have a party!*
In all seriousness I just don't get what the big deal is. *shrug* Then again I've never been one for following a complete structure when writing either. It used to annoy my AP English teacher until he finally got where I was coming from.
Okay...I have a question. If I was doing a death scene and I was in the victims head until the moment he/she died and then in that abrupt ending of life switched over so that the readers could feel the killer's satisfaction would that be considered head hopping...or just a chilling read?
Head hopping? Who comes up with this crap?
*hehe* having watched someone do that with the TP trail and damn was she dressed to kill LMAO!! I'm visual too. I have to see it before I can write it.
You didn't know there was a rule? Oh yes there's a rule. You don't really violate it but you might. You can't change POV's in a scene. Switching between Ty and Kaylee for example, no way, that won't work. Your example is perfect - nope, that's a violation. You get a ticket.
Who comes up with it? You didn't see the thread? Ask them. I don't know.
Ignore them. Unless you want to drag the damned text books behind you like a chain of stones and you don't do that.
and thank you. THANK YOU.
Well, slap my butt and call me Susan! You learn something new everyday don't you? Not that I'm going to DO anything with this new 'rule' but yeah! Wow...O_o
I remember I switched POV during the Honeymoon chapter of RG. Where they kept talking over each other because, ya know, that's what people actually do in RL. *rolls eyes*
Ohhh...I saw that thread! It made my eyes cross and my nose bleed trying to follow it so I just closed the window! *shudders*
I'm going to continue to write like I always have. It's about making the reader care about the writing and the characters. Not about some freaking rule that I will never understand! Blah! That's what I have to say about that rule! BLAH!! :P
Could you have written that honeymoon chapter and made it work another way? I don't think so. It would have been totally unrealistic.
No nosebleeds here either.
Thank you. Here's to shredding the rule book!
You two crack me up!!!
LOL
I write what I want when I want... I seriously give a damn about POV or writing rules...
I have a bunch of characters and they are all main characters,they all have a POV, and they all get their chance to talk and explain their lives and feelings,etc, etc, etc. I don't like focusing in one person, it gets boring after a while! :P
Hey Sandy LOL! So I guess that means you don't care if you get a writing ticket?
Kind of doubt there's any impact on your auto insurance....now that is serious stuff!
thank you - and you write what you want when you want and how you want.
LOL!!! That's what I'm talking about Sandy! Writing guidelines...that's what it should be called. Not a fast and true rule. It isn't it has to be this way or it's just totally wrong! Ugh! And I agree with you on it getting boring. *shakes head*
Maybe that's why I didn't get involved in the thread Beth. The whole overall attitude was sort of off putting. *shrug* That's why I enjoy staying under the radar! LOL!!
I just didn't get what the big deal is about it. One thing doesn't hold true for EVERYONE!
POV shmeeOV, as long as the characters in the story have one that is compelling and interesting to the reader that is all that matters. Yes, I can be confusing at times to jump back and forth between narrative and first person accounts, but when blended together seemlessly it makes for a more interesting way to tell a story. When I read a narrative sometimes I do wonder what a character is thinking. In stories much like in real life a third person account may not be all that reliable.
Personally I write from both a narrative and first person POV as I like for my charaters to be fully "heard" and understood. It helps me understand and work through the story as well.
Hey Muzegoddess! Thanks - yeah I guess it can get confusing, and that's probably why some people really don't like it when a specific situation is described from Bill's POV and then from Jane's POV without any kind of transition. I can't remember ever being confused as a reader. I can't remember ever even noticing it.
I did try to go back and rewrite a scene from a chapter back where I described a scene from more than one person's point of view. It would take a major rewrite; redoing the entire scene, new shots, a lot of work. I couldn't fix it.
But if it does bother people and I can avoid it, I'll try to do that.
Muzegoddess, I'm going to add, are we going to get a chance to read your work...
You know I'm intrigued.
Yes, very soon I hope. I am working on revamping my blog now that I have gotten my game back together. My user files were corrupt and, of course I didn't have a back-up (lost all of my charaters, houses, CC, everything; cried like a fool). As soon as am up and running again I will definately let you know.
I could do a whole thread on what that's like. I think I've had to start over again at least half a dozen times. Crying is definitely appropriate.
and I still don't back up as often as I should.
Ok well I'm looking forward to it! I'll bug you!
I dont write anything but the way I want to write and if it prohibits me from getting published, oh well... OMG! TP tail, LMAO!!!
And it used to irritate the heck out of my English teacher as well but I still always got an A!
I write the way I want to write and I have read NYBS authors who 'Head-Hop' and their stuff is good and sometimes not JMO...
It is still in my personal opinion effective in any given story to have multiple points of view.
Then again going from 1st person to third and so on... in one paragraph can be a bit confusing.
But to convey your (character) thoughts etc... It is a must in my POV to at least address them all, but then again what do I know of writing, LOL! I am struggling to edit a book for hopeful publish. LOL!
And I will say it one last time
"Writing is about ingenuity, creativity and imagination! Your readers will either love it or hate it, shrug your shoulders take the "CONSTRUCTIVE" critism and move forward, learn from what you can but never... NEVER deviate from your self, as a writer you are an artist and without difference there would be a s*** load of boring books out there all from the same POV... Writing is about Freedom to express yourself in your own way!
Text books, HA! I never went to college, do not really know if I plan on it, especially if it means I must sit through lecture after lecture on how to fit the mold of society. *Freedom!!!* LOL! I am just being a goof today I suppose... Sorry for the ramble but I am a free spirit and stubborn, obstinate and choose my own paths.
Still cracking up at the mental image of a TP tail, LOL!
I too started writing in 1st Person! I think most everyone does, that or narrator. As a matter of fact that is my biggest issue with editing, the whole darned book is in 1st POV... EEP!
I think I have gone off course but oh well and truly hope I havent offended anyone.
Hi Cherie!
It would be really hard to use both first and third person POV together. I'm sure someone has done it. I've never tried it.
I am going to be more careful about mixing points of view from different characters in the same scene. If it's disconcerting, I should be able to avoid it. I just wasn't aware it was an issue and still don't really understand why it is. But I'm moving on.
You didn't go off course! Good luck with your book!
and thank you so much for your support over all this time!
Well, I for one only thought that they rule for POV was sticking to the same one throughout a scene. Or is that what head hopping is? I'm still not really sure! And who does jump back and forth, that's what it sounds like to me, from one paragraph or sentence to another. Must look up the definition of head hopping and see if I'm guilty of it...
That being said, I could care less if there is an actual rule, writing shouldn't have rules, it should be free. The only thing that really gets me going off is poor use of punctuation and spelling! :D
So what is head hopping really? Is it a 1st person narrative that switches characters? Because 3rd person omniscient is all knowing, therefore you aren't hopping into their head, it's coming from the narrator's so it can't be from that POV. Now I'm confused. :D
Anyway, screw the rules, especially where the sims are concerned, this should be fun. Hence calling it a game.
Emily, an example of head hopping is what I did in one of the scenes Sessions 8: the scene with Camilla and Heydon. I'm hopping between her thoughts and his thoughts.
I tried to go back and fix this but found it too difficult to accomplish. The whole scene would have to be rewritten and probably restaged. But I should have stuck with either her point of view or his, not mixed them up.
Hmmm, I didn't find anything wrong with that scene and my brain didn't get jumbled by switching around. Maybe it only becomes that way if you go in and out of many different characters? I dunno. Writing by rules makes it no fun. :D
I definitely switch POV's in that scene though, Emily. I wasn't really paying much attention to it at the time, but I can see it now.
Part of my problem with it - some extremely emotional scenes don't have the same impact if you're just seeing one person's perspective. I don't really like it. I'd prefer the writer show what the other person is thinking and feeling too. So I guess the rule just doesn't work for me. Or, more likely, I'm not creative enough to figure out how to manage the same thing without violating the rule.
thank you though!
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